AVELEY


?         Joined London League
1951-52   Promoted to Premier Division despite only finishing 9th
1954-55   London League Champions
1955-56   London League runner-up
1957-58   Joined Delphian League
          Delphian League runner-up
1962-63   Normal Delphian League season aborted due to weather
          Emergency competition organised
1963-64   Delphian League disbanded. Clubs formed new Division Two of
          Athenian League
1968-69   Athenian League Division Two runner-up (lost title on goal average)
          Promoted to Division One
1970-71   Athenian League Division One Champions (on goal average)
          Promoted to Premier Division
1973-74   Joined Isthmian League in it's new Division Two
1977-78   Division Two renamed Division One
1986      Relegated to Division Two North
1989-90   Isthmian League Division Two North runner-up
          Promoted to Division One
1993      Relegated to Division Two
1995      Relegated to Division Three
2001-02   Promoted to Division One North (after league re-organisation)
2004-05   Joined Southern League Eastern Division
2006-07   Rejoined Isthmian League Division One North
2008-09   Isthmian League Division One North Champions
          Promoted to Premier Division
2009-10   Not promoted after play-offs (SF Aveley 0 Boreham Wood 1)
2012      Relegated to Division One North
2012-13   Not promoted after play-offs (SF Maldon & Tiptree 3 Aveley 1)
2018-19   Division One North renamed North Division
          Isthmian League North Division runner-up
          Not promoted after play-offs (SF Aveley 0 Heybridge Swifts 2)
2021-22   Isthmian League Division One North Champions
          Promoted to Premier Division
2022-23   Promoted to National League South after play-offs (SF Canvey Island 0
          Aveley 0, Aveley won 4-2 on penalties, F Hornchurch 0 Aveley 1)

SEASON    LEAGUE     P    W    D    L    F    A    P      POS

1951-52   LOND-1    24   11    2   11   62   39   24      9/13
1952-53   LOND-P    30   14    7    9   60   54   31      7/16
1953-54   LOND-P    26   14    5    7   55   37   33      3/14
1954-55   LOND-P    22   17    2    3   62   24   36      1/12
1955-56   LOND-P    24   13    7    4   61   35   33      2/13
1956-57   LOND      28   18    4    6   75   46   40      3/15
1957-58   DELPH     28   18    4    6   77   46   40      2/15
1958-59   DELPH     28   13    5   10   58   52   31      8/15
1959-60   DELPH     24    8    7    9   41   42   23      8/13
1960-61   DELPH     28   13    3   12   69   55   29      7/15
1961-62   DELPH     26    9    8    9   50   43   26      7/14
1962-63   DELPH     17    8    5    4   34   29   21     ABAND
          DELPH-E    7    4    0    3   11   11    8      4/8
1963-64   ATHEN-2   28   14    5    9   70   40   31      6/15
1964-65   ATHEN-2   30   18    6    6   62   32   42      4/16
1965-66   ATHEN-2   30   15    6    9   68   44   36      7/16
1966-67   ATHEN-2   30   14    4   12   49   51   32      6/16
1967-68   ATHEN-2   30   12    5   13   54   53   29     11/16
1968-69   ATHEN-2   30   20    6    4   77   32   46      2/16
1969-70   ATHEN-1   30   16    5    9   65   44   37      4/16
1970-71   ATHEN-1   30   18    8    4   59   24   44      1/16
1971-72   ATHEN-P   30   12    6   12   46   37   30      9/16
1972-73   ATHEN-P   30   11   10    9   34   34   32      7/16
1973-74   ISTH-2    30   16    5    9   50   28   53      5/16
1974-75   ISTH-2    34    9    7   18   34   63   34     17/18
1975-76   ISTH-2    42   11    9   22   34   51   42     17/22
1976-77   ISTH-2    42   14    8   20   49   62   50     15/22
1977-78   ISTH-1    42   13    7   22   47   75   46     18/22
1978-79   ISTH-1    42   17    6   19   57   67   57     12/22
1979-80   ISTH-1    42   12   13   17   45   55   49     15/22
1980-81   ISTH-1    42   13    9   20   54   55   48     16/22
1981-82   ISTH-1    40   14   10   16   46   58   52     14/21
1982-83   ISTH-1    40   15    7   18   52   62   52     11/21
1983-84   ISTH-1    42   15   10   17   49   53   55     12/22
1984-85   ISTH-1    42   16    7   19   62   78   55     13/22
1985-86   ISTH-1    42    8    6   28   59   98   30     22/22
1986-87   ISTH-2N   42   19   13   10   68   50   70      5/22
1987-88   ISTH-2N   42    8   13   21   42   65   37     21/22
1988-89   ISTH-2N   42   18   10   14   54   52   64      9/22
1989-90   ISTH-2N   42   23   16    3   68   24   85      2/22
1990-91   ISTH-1    42   21    9   12   76   43   72      4/22
1991-92   ISTH-1    40    8    3   29   33   95   27     21/21
1992-93   ISTH-1    40    9    7   24   45   87   34     21/21
1993-94   ISTH-2    42   19    5   18   60   66   62     10/22
1994-95   ISTH-2    42    9    5   28   48   95   32     21/22
1995-96   ISTH-3    40   16   10   14   62   53   58     10/21
1996-97   ISTH-3    32   17    6    9   64   39   57      5/17
1997-98   ISTH-3    38   16    7   15   65   57   55      9/20
1998-99   ISTH-3    38   12    7   19   50   67   43     14/20
1999-00   ISTH-3    40   17   11   12   74   64   62      8/21
2000-01   ISTH-3    42   24    3   15   85   61   75      6/22
2001-02   ISTH-3    42   26    6   10  109   55   84      3/22
2002-03   ISTH-1N   46   21   14   11   66   48   77      6/24
2003-04   ISTH-1N   46   15   14   17   67   71   59     14/24
2004-05   SOUTH-E   42   12    9   21   57   69   45     17/22
2005-06   SOUTH-E   42   11   13   18   51   70   46     20/22
2006-07   ISTH-1N   42   14    9   19   47   57   51     15/22
2007-08   ISTH-1N   42   18   12   12   68   65   66     11/22
2008-09   ISTH-1N   42   29    9    4   81   40   96      1/22
2009-10   ISTH-P    42   21    7   14   83   62   70      3/22
2010-11   ISTH-P    42   10    8   24   35   62   38     19/22
2011-12   ISTH-P    42    5   12   25   41   88   27     20/22
2012-13   ISTH-1N   42   24    6   12   92   58   78      5/22
2013-14   ISTH-1N   46   20    5   21   81   81   65     13/24
2014-15   ISTH-1N   46   21    7   18   86   75   70      9/24
2015-16   ISTH-1N   46   20    8   18   84   71   68     12/24
2016-17   ISTH-1N   46   21   13   12   75   64   76      7/24
2017-18   ISTH-1N   46   15   12   19   61   67   57     14/24
2018-19   ISTH-1N   38   24    8    6   84   49   80      2/20
2019-20   ISTH-1N   26   14    9    3   66   31   51     ABAND
2020-21   ISTH-1N    6    3    0    3    8    9    9     ABAND
2021-22   ISTH-1N   38   24    8    6   94   37   80      1/20
2022-23   ISTH-P    42   23    9   10   64   42   78      4/20
2023-24   NAT-S

F.A. CUP

1954-55   PRE   ILFORD                              H    0-0
          PREr  ILFORD                              A    0-3
1955-56   PRE   BRENTWOOD & WARLEY                  H    5-1
          1Q    LEYTON                              A    0-3
1956-57   PRE   LEYTONSTONE                         A    2-6
1957-58   PRE   RAINHAM TOWN                        A    1-2
1958-59   PRE   BARKING{1}                          H    0-1
1959-60   PRE   LEYTONSTONE                         H    1-2
1960-61   1Q    BRENTWOOD & WARLEY                  H    2-5
1961-62   1Q    ILFORD                              H    2-2
          1Qr   ILFORD                              A    0-3
1962-63   1Q    WOODFORD TOWN                       H    1-0
          2Q    TILBURY                             A    1-2
1963-64   1Q    BRENTWOOD & WARLEY                  A    4-2
          2Q    TILBURY                             A    3-3
          2Qr   TILBURY                             H    2-1
          3Q    ILFORD                              H    0-1
1964-65   1Q    TILBURY                             A    1-1
          1Qr   TILBURY                             H    2-0
          2Q    HORNCHURCH{1}                       A    0-4
1965-66   1Q    WALTHAMSTOW AVENUE                  A    0-4
1966-67   1Q    KINGSTONIAN                         A    2-5
1967-68   1Q    HILLINGDON BOROUGH                  A    0-4
1968-69   1Q    TOOTING & MITCHAM UNITED            H    0-1
1969-70   1Q    BROMLEY                             H    1-2
1970-71   1Q    BRAINTREE & CRITTALL ATHLETIC       H    2-1
          2Q    BOREHAM WOOD                        H    3-3
          2Qr   BOREHAM WOOD                        A    3-0
          3Q    HAYES                               A    3-2
          4Q    LEYTONSTONE                         H    0-0
          4Qr   LEYTONSTONE                         A    3-2
          1     YEOVIL TOWN                         A    0-1
1971-72   1Q    BANSTEAD ATHLETIC                   H    1-0
          2Q    SOUTHALL                            H    1-1
          2Qr   SOUTHALL                            A    3-3
          2Qr2  SOUTHALL                            H    2-1
          3Q    MAIDENHEAD UNITED                   H    1-1
          3Qr   MAIDENHEAD UNITED                   A    2-3
1972-73   1Q    CLAPTON                             A    2-1
          2Q    SUTTON UNITED                       H    1-2
1973-74   1Q    HARLOW TOWN                         H    2-1
          2Q    CRAWLEY TOWN                        A    3-2
          3Q    HARROW BOROUGH                      H    1-0
          4Q    BOREHAM WOOD                        A    2-2
          4Qr   BOREHAM WOOD                        H    1-2
1974-75   PRE   CRAY WANDERERS                      A    2-4
1975-76   1Q    HORNCHURCH{1}                       H    1-1
          1Qr   HORNCHURCH{1}                       A    1-3
1976-77   1Q    RAINHAM TOWN                        A    2-1
          2Q    GRAYS ATHLETIC                      H    1-0
          3Q    WOKING                              H    1-1
          3Qr   WOKING                              A    0-4
1977-78   1Q    LEYTONSTONE                         H    0-2
1978-79   PRE   GRAVESEND & NORTHFLEET              A    2-6
1979-80   PRE   EPPING TOWN                         A    2-2
          PREr  EPPING TOWN                         H    0-1
1980-81   1Q    BASILDON UNITED                     H    2-0
          2Q    WALTHAMSTOW AVENUE                  H    2-0
          3Q    GRAYS ATHLETIC                      A    1-0
          4Q    GRAVESEND & NORTHFLEET              A    0-4
1981-82   1Q    WELLING UNITED                      H    1-1
          1Qr   WELLING UNITED                      A    1-1
          1Qr2  WELLING UNITED                      H    0-0
          1Qr3  WELLING UNITED                      A    2-3
1982-83   1Q    HAVERHILL ROVERS                    H    5-0
          2Q    WALTHAMSTOW AVENUE                  H    1-3
1983-84   1Q    WOODFORD TOWN                       A    2-0
          2Q    WEALDSTONE                          H    1-1
          2Qr   WEALDSTONE                          A    0-2
1984-85   1Q    MARCH TOWN UNITED                   H    5-0
          2Q    CAMBRIDGE CITY                      H    2-1
          3Q    GORLESTON                           A    4-0
          4Q    DAGENHAM                            H    0-1
1985-86   1Q    HAREFIELD UNITED                    A    0-0
          1Qr   HAREFIELD UNITED                    H    2-0
          2Q    GRAYS ATHLETIC                      A    1-2
1986-87   PRE   HORNCHURCH{1}                       H    0-1
1987-88   PRE   TIPTREE UNITED                      A    4-0
          1Q    BURY TOWN                           H    2-2
          1Qr   BURY TOWN                           A    1-3
1988-89   PRE   HALSTEAD TOWN                       H    2-2
          PREr  HALSTEAD TOWN                       A    3-3    Abandoned during extra time
          PREr2 HALSTEAD TOWN                       H    1-4
1989-90   PRE   CHESHAM UNITED                      H    0-0
          PREr  CHESHAM UNITED                      A    1-0
          1Q    BOREHAM WOOD                        H    0-1
1990-91   PRE   BARKINGSIDE                         A    1-2
1991-92   PRE   FELIXSTOWE TOWN                     H    2-0
          1Q    HEYBRIDGE SWIFTS                    H    0-2
1992-93   PRE   BROOK HOUSE                         A    1-1
          PREr  BROOK HOUSE                         H    1-0
          1Q    LEIGHTON TOWN                       A    4-2
          2Q    BOSTON UNITED                       A    2-1
          3Q    CORBY TOWN                          A    1-4
1993-94   1Q    BILLERICAY TOWN                     A    1-1
          1Qr   BURNHAM RAMBLERS                    H    1-3
1994-95   PRE   WOOTTON BLUE CROSS                  H    1-1
          PREr  WOOTTON BLUE CROSS                  A    3-1
          1Q    EDGWARE TOWN                        H    1-2
1995-96   PRE   STOWMARKET TOWN                     H    0-0
          PREr  STOWMARKET TOWN                     A    4-3
          1Q    BILLERICAY TOWN                     A    0-2
1996-97   PRE   STANSTED                            A    1-2
1997-98   PRE   CORINTHIAN-CASUALS                  A    2-0
          1Q    CHICHESTER CITY                     H    2-1
          2Q    CROYDON                             A    0-2
1998-99   1Q    BROOK HOUSE                         A    3-1
          2Q    FORD SPORTS DAVENTRY                A    1-2
1999-00   PRE   STANSTED                            H    1-0
          1Q    BEDFORD TOWN                        A    0-0
          1Qr   BEDFORD TOWN                        H    1-2
2000-01   PRE   ARLESEY TOWN                        A    1-7
2001-02   PRE   WROXHAM                             A    1-2
2002-03   PRE   HARLOW TOWN                         A    1-0
          1Q    STOTFOLD                            H    2-2
          1Qr   STOTFOLD                            A    2-0
          2Q    THREE BRIDGES                       A    3-1
          3Q    CANVEY ISLAND                       A    0-2
2003-04   PRE   WISBECH TOWN                        A    2-1
          1Q    LOWESTOFT TOWN                      H    1-2
2004-05   PRE   MILDENHALL TOWN                     A    1-1
          PREr  MILDENHALL TOWN                     H    3-0
          1Q    BERKHAMSTED TOWN                    H    2-0
          2Q    BOREHAM WOOD                        A    1-2
2005-06   PRE   KINGSBURY TOWN                      H    5-1
          1Q    BURNHAM RAMBLERS                    H    1-2
2006-07   PRE   OXHEY JETS                          H    0-1
2007-08   PRE   BERKHAMSTED TOWN                    H    2-1
          1Q    HENDON                              A    1-1
          1Qr   HENDON                              H    2-3
2008-09   PRE   HANWELL TOWN                        A    5-0
          1Q    HARLOW TOWN                         A    1-5
2009-10   1Q    LONDON COLNEY                       A    1-1
          1Qr   LONDON COLNEY                       H    4-2
          2Q    BURNHAM                             A    1-1
          2Qr   BURNHAM                             H    3-1
          3Q    HAMPTON & RICHMOND BOROUGH          A    1-1
          3Qr   HAMPTON & RICHMOND BOROUGH          H    1-2
2010-11   1Q    HITCHIN TOWN                        A    0-2
2011-12   1Q    GRAYS ATHLETIC                      A    2-1
          2Q    HANWORTH VILLA                      A    0-1
2012-13   PRE   WHITTON UNITED                      A    3-0
          1Q    HADLEIGH UNITED                     H    6-1
          2Q    MARGATE                             H    1-4
2013-14   PRE   WALTHAM FOREST                      H    7-0
          1Q    CANVEY ISLAND                       H    2-5
2014-15   PRE   BASILDON UNITED                     H    2-0
          1Q    TILBURY                             A    4-0
          2Q    THURROCK                            A    2-0
          3Q    WILLAND ROVERS                      A    2-3
2015-16   PRE   F C CLACTON                         A    6-2
          1Q    HISTON                              A    5-1
          2Q    HORSHAM Y M C A                     A    2-2
          2Qr   HORSHAM Y M C A                     H    4-1
          3Q    HAVANT & WATERLOOVILLE              H    0-2
2016-17   PRE   A F C HORNCHURCH                    H    0-1
2017-18   PRE   A F C SUDBURY                       A    0-4
2018-19   PRE   POTTERS BAR TOWN                    H    0-2
2019-20   PRE   BARKING                             A    1-2    @ Aveley
2020-21   PRE   HARPENDEN TOWN                      A    3-0
          1Q    LOWESTOFT TOWN                      A    3-2
          2Q    BRANTHAM ATHLETIC                   A    3-0
          3Q    CRAY VALLEY P M                     A    0-2
2021-22   PRE   MALDON & TIPTREE                    A    1-0
          1Q    BARKING                             A    1-1
          1Qr   BARKING                             H    1-1    Barking won 5-4 on penalties
2022-23   1Q    POTTERS BAR TOWN                    H    1-1    Match abandoned in injury time
          1Qr   POTTERS BAR TOWN                    A    1-2
2023-24   2Q    KING'S LYNN TOWN                    A    0-0
          2Qr   KING'S LYNN TOWN                    H    4-0
          3Q    HORNCHURCH                          H    2-2
          3Qr   HORNCHURCH                          A    2-1
          4Q    BARNET                              H    2-2
          4Qr   BARNET                              A    0-4

F.A. AMATEUR CUP

1970-71   2     CARSHALTON ATHLETIC                 H    2-3
          3     MARINE                              A    1-0
          QF    SLOUGH TOWN                         H    0-2
1972-73   2     WITNEY TOWN                         H    0-0
          2r    WITNEY TOWN                         A    3-1
          3     BISHOP'S STORTFORD                  A    0-1
1973-74   2     LEYTON                              H    0-0
          2r    LEYTON                              A    1-0
          3     WOKING                              H    1-1
          3r    WOKING                              A    0-2

F.A. TROPHY

1974-75   3Q    BISHOP'S STORTFORD                  H    1-1
          3Qr   BISHOP'S STORTFORD                  A    0-0
          3Qr2  BISHOP'S STORTFORD                  H    1-4    @ ?
1975-76   1Q    LEYTONSTONE                         H    0-0
          1Qr   LEYTONSTONE                         A    2-1
          2Q    HARWICH & PARKESTON                 A    3-3
          2Qr   HARWICH & PARKESTON                 H    1-2
1976-77   PRE   SITTINGBOURNE                       H    1-0
          1Q    TILBURY                             A    1-0
          2Q    BASINGSTOKE TOWN                    H    0-0
          2Qr   BASINGSTOKE TOWN                    A    0-3
1977-78   PRE   CRAWLEY TOWN                        H    0-2
1978-79   PRE   CLAPTON                             A    0-4
1979-80   1Q    HAMPTON                             H    1-0
          2Q    WARE                                A    0-1
1980-81   PRE   CLACTON TOWN                        H    5-1
          1Q    CROYDON                             A    0-2
1981-82   PRE   SUDBURY TOWN                        A    1-2
1982-83   1Q    ST ALBANS CITY                      H    2-1
          2Q    CHELMSFORD CITY                     A    2-2
          2Qr   CHELMSFORD CITY                     H    0-1
1983-84   1Qr   CHELMSFORD CITY                     H    0-3
1984-85   1Q    HERTFORD TOWN                       H    0-0
          1Qr   HERTFORD TOWN                       A    2-0
          2Q    BOGNOR REGIS TOWN                   H    1-0
          3Q    WOKING                              H    2-2
          3Qr   WOKING                              A    1-2
1985-86   1Q    OXFORD CITY                         A    1-2
1986-87   1Q    LEATHERHEAD                         H    0-0
          1Qr   LEATHERHEAD                         A    2-4
1990-91   1Q    MARLOW                              A    1-2
1991-92   1Q    BOREHAM WOOD                        A    1-4
1992-93   1Q    BOREHAM WOOD                        A    1-3
2002-03   Q     NEWPORT I O W                       H    2-0
          1     WEYMOUTH                            H    1-4
2003-04   PRE   BURGESS HILL TOWN                   H    1-2
2004-05   PRE   CRAY WANDERERS                      A    1-3
2005-06   1Q    KINGSTONIAN                         A    2-2
          1Qr   KINGSTONIAN                         H    0-1
2006-07   PRE   HORSHAM Y M C A                     A    1-3
2007-08   PRE   ILFORD                              A    2-2
          PREr  ILFORD                              H    0-2
2008-09   PRE   ILFORD                              H    2-0
          1Q    HITCHIN TOWN                        H    1-2
2009-10   1Q    CARSHALTON ATHLETIC                 H    2-5
2010-11   1Q    CAMBRIDGE CITY                      A    0-1
2011-12   1Q    BURY TOWN                           H    0-1
2012-13   PRE   ROYSTON TOWN                        A    1-5
2013-14   PRE   HYTHE TOWN                          A    1-2
2014-15   PRE   BURGESS HILL TOWN                   A    0-1
2015-16   PRE   SOUTH PARK                          H    1-4
2016-17   PRE   WITHAM TOWN                         A    1-2
2017-18   PRE   MARLOW                              A    0-0
          PREr  MARLOW                              H    5-3
          1Q    BURGESS HILL TOWN                   A    0-2
2018-19   EP    TOOTING & MITCHAM UNITED            H    3-1
          PRE   BASILDON UNITED                     H    2-1
          1Q    DUNSTABLE TOWN                      H    1-0
          2Q    BEACONSFIELD TOWN                   H    1-2
2019-20   PRE   EAST GRINSTEAD TOWN                 A    2-0
          1Q    BOWERS & PITSEA                     H    3-0
          2Q    TAUNTON TOWN                        A    3-3
          2Qr   TAUNTON TOWN                        H    2-1
          3Q    BIGGLESWADE TOWN                    A    4-1
          1     CARSHALTON ATHLETIC                 A    3-3
          1r    CARSHALTON ATHLETIC                 H    2-0
          2     HORNCHURCH                          A    2-1
          3     CHELMSFORD CITY                     H    3-1
          QF    NOTTS COUNTY                        A    0-5
2020-21   2Q    HANWELL TOWN                        A    1-1    Hanwell Town won 8-7 on penalties
          3Q    BEACONSFIELD TOWN                   H    3-0
          1     HASTINGS UNITED                     H    1-0
          2     CHESHAM UNITED                      H    1-3
2021-22   2Q    UXBRIDGE                            H    1-2
2022-23   3Q    HORSHAM                             A    3-4
2023-24   2     ST IVES TOWN                        H    2-1
          3     HUNGERFORD TOWN                     H    1-1    Aveley won 8-7 on penalties
          4     A F C FYLDE                         H    1-0
          5     BROMLEY                             A    0-2

F.A. VASE

1987-88   EP    BRIGHTLINGSEA UNITED                H    4-2
          PRE   MARCH TOWN UNITED                   A    3-4
1988-89   PRE   RUISLIP MANOR                       H    0-3
1989-90   PRE   EDGWARE TOWN                        A    3-2
          1     RAYNERS LANE                        H    2-1
          2     BURNHAM RAMBLERS                    A    2-1
          3     BILLERICAY TOWN                     A    1-3
1993-94   1     HAREFIELD UNITED                    A    3-0
          2     CANVEY ISLAND                       H    2-4
1994-95   1     LETCHWORTH GARDEN CITY              A    2-1    Tie awarded to Letchworth Garden City
1995-96   2Q    POTTON UNITED                       A    2-1
          1     HERTFORD TOWN                       H    2-1
          2     BRACKLEY TOWN                       A    3-2
          3     TILBURY                             A    4-2
          4     WIVENHOE TOWN                       A    0-4
1996-97   2Q    HARPENDEN TOWN                      H    2-0
          1     FORD UNITED                         A    1-0
          2     ARLESEY TOWN                        H    2-2
          2r    ARLESEY TOWN                        A    2-3
1997-98   2Q    CLAPTON                             H    3-1
          1     ST NEOTS TOWN                       H    4-2
          2     BURNHAM                             H    2-2
          2r    BURNHAM                             A    2-0
          3     WROXHAM                             H    1-2
1998-99   2Q    GORLESTON                           H    3-0
          1     WHITSTABLE TOWN                     H    2-1
          2     NEWMARKET TOWN                      A    0-5
1999-00   2Q    POTTON UNITED                       H    7-0
          1     ILFORD                              H    0-2
2000-01   2Q    ILFORD                              A    1-0
          1     FAKENHAM TOWN                       A    3-1
          2     ARLESEY TOWN                        A    0-2
2001-02   2Q    CHALFONT ST PETER                   A    4-0
          1     FARNHAM TOWN                        A    1-0
          2     KINGSBURY TOWN                      H    3-4

Please acknowledge the F.C.H.D. when using this information elsewhere